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Shalom

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Whale
(@whale)
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Peace be unto all of you. (Shalom Aleichem) I am the proverbial wandering Jew. I was born in India of Iraqi parentage, spent time in Japan, moved to London England for 10 years and from there, came to Israel with a wife and daughter. I have toured much of Europe, visited the US of A and Canada and toured Egypt. In Israel, my wife and I brought two brothers into the world for our daughter - and I am talking over 40 years ago. I am now 81. I have a published book that can be purchased only in India, called 'Yeshua!' which is a new look at the Jesus story from an historical and Jewish point of view. After all, the guy was one of us. I have been on other web sites similar to this, but not UKA. Hope to interact a lot with all of you. Let me state right off - I am one of those who believe that honest negative criticism is the best way to improve your writing skills. So if I offer adverse criticism, please do not take it personally. It will be my subjective view and you can pick out anything you feel will help and discard the rest. The work must always be your own creation. I spend my time lecturing on various subjects, loving my wife who will be 80 this month, and enjoying my three teenage granddaughters - not necessarily in that order. I look forward to reading your work and getting serious feedback for mine.

 
Posted : June 7, 2017 9:50 am
sirat
(@sirat)
Posts: 58
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Hello Whale, and a whale-sized welcome to the site. I'm surprised to hear that you're 81, you look younger in your picture. You sound like a writer after my own heart, someone who understands the value of honest criticism. I'm afraid you'll need to tread softly with that here, we have a few very delicate egos who don't take it too well and can turn sour, but we also have lots of sensible writers who know what it's all about and love discussing the craft. I'm greatly looking forward to reading your work. My absolute favourite writer on this site is an American of about your age named Harry Buschman or 'Harry'. I strongly recommend his work. I'm a mere stripling, just turned 70. Please be sure to give me your honest feedback on my short stories.

Best regards, David.

 
Posted : June 7, 2017 11:08 am
Whale
(@whale)
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That's a picture of me in the late 1930s.

 
Posted : June 7, 2017 12:22 pm
sirat
(@sirat)
Posts: 58
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Another eight or nine years and they could have taken one of me. If they did I don't know where it is now.

 
Posted : June 7, 2017 12:56 pm
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Posts: 404
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And Shalom to you from another octogenarian (I am 82).
I am sure that on this site you will find some kindred spirits who have adopted your philosophy and assert that negative criticism is the best way to improve your writing skills. Others disagree.
Everyone to his taste, I say and leave it at that.
 
When someone submits he/she is presented with following:

Critique level for this piece:

  • Critique/comments welcome
  • No critique please
  • No critique/comments please

 Before you start offering your opinion, which as you rightly  say will be your subjective view, bear in mind that if an author opts for the second or third choice there is no point in giving unwanted  advice.
The distinction between the two is somewhat vague but I assume that no deep critique is sought. There is a place in the Forum that caters for a discussion of that kind.
Follow these rules and you won’t need to thread on anybody’s toes.

The ‘sensible writers’ will always say that those who don’t want feedback have a fragile ego. A point hotly debated as you will find as you progress.
I enclose a link to some of the guidelines that you may find useful.

https://ukauthors.com/submission-guidelines/

Best wishes, Luigi

 
Posted : June 7, 2017 4:19 pm
Whale
(@whale)
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Thanks - will keep my eyes open - to critique or not to critique.

 
Posted : June 7, 2017 4:56 pm
e-griff
(@e-griff)
Posts: 45
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Feel free to give an honest opinion, except to the few who say they don't want it. Critique welcome is the norm when you submit work. 

There is no special forum for 'deep crit' - it will be as deep as the commenter wishes. But if they spend time giving you useful advice, it will be of great benefit to you. But you certainly won't get critique all the time. Take a look round 'latest published' and see how things are handled. 

Oh, and welcome! 

 
Posted : June 8, 2017 7:26 pm
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Posts: 404
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E-griff's quote - There is no special forum for 'deep crit' - it will be as deep as the commenter wishes.

That's news to me considering that the submission guidelines say:

8. Don’t forget you can submit your work to our forum workshops (if you want more in-depth help and critique) here –> DEEP CRITIQUE

Does the ukadmin agree with the above statement and do we disregard the guidelines?

 
Posted : June 8, 2017 10:49 pm
sirat
(@sirat)
Posts: 58
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I think 'negative criticism' is a rather loaded term. I would prefer the term 'constructive criticism'. Often, for example, the feedback I give takes the form of suggesting possible improvements or alternatives to the way something has been structured  or expressed. That to me isn't 'negative criticism'. If all you can conceive of is 'negative criticism' or 'positive criticism' then anything that isn't a compliment is automatically 'negative'. We may as well have an option that says 'compliments only'. To my way of thinking that makes a farce of the whole thing. If people aren't allowed to say anything that isn't complimentary then we're engaged in some kind of New Age therapeutic activity that I certainly wouldn't want to have anything to do with. I'm hoping we're a bit more mature than that.

 
Posted : June 8, 2017 11:05 pm
Whale
(@whale)
Posts: 6
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Hi David - I would like to stress that I wrote Honest Negative Criticism, which is a whole lot different. This does not mean all HNC is right. One can take it or leave it. But one must learn to accept it, whether one calls it constructive or HNC. The point is our criticism can be directed only at the work and cannot be personal as we do not know each other, and should be accepted in that spirit and that spirit alone. I repeat, I have learned more from HNC than from any other method, including devouring vast amounts of literature, which is the best way to start learning the craft of writing. 

 
Posted : June 9, 2017 5:51 am
sirat
(@sirat)
Posts: 58
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You say it SHOULD be accepted in the spirit in which it is offered and I agree but the fact is that in some cases it WON'T be and if you want to avoid unpleasantness it's best to avoid offering it where it isn't wanted. Why waste your own time in that way anyhow? Be very careful if someone specifies 'no critique' (which I still think should simply stop the comment box from appearing at all) or 'comments only' (i.e. praise only). Just saying.

 
Posted : June 11, 2017 5:46 am
Whale
(@whale)
Posts: 6
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Of course. I shall not offer critiques when they're not wanted. Thanks.

 
Posted : June 11, 2017 6:06 am
e-griff
(@e-griff)
Posts: 45
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As far as I know, only two members currently  reject critique, one being ionicus (above), the other gerry We respect their wishes. So there is undue emphasis being placed on this issue, as. you are on pretty safe ground critiquing all other submissions on the site, so don't let it worry you. We need good critique 🙂 

 
Posted : June 11, 2017 4:30 pm
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Posts: 404
Reputable Member
 

It is better that I clarify my position so that new members know what I have said in the past and still maintain.
I don't mind people saying that my work is rubbish if that is what they think; what I object to is what happened with great frequency in the past: people would rewrite my poems in their own style in their entirety and offer me their version.
I was not prepared to accept that and said so.
The critique levels were not the same as they are now - there wasn't a 'no critique' level - and the one that suited me best was one which said 'comments only' to avoid the situation described above. Now that is not available anymore and only Hobson's choice remain.
Sirat's statement  that 'comments only' equals 'praise only' is simply laughable.

 

 
Posted : June 12, 2017 11:00 am
Whale
(@whale)
Posts: 6
Active Member
Topic starter
 

The main question seems to be:

Are you writing for your own pleasure or do you want to be a published writer?

If you put 'For my own Pleasure' and you can add (if you wish) 'and hopefully yours!' at the top near your title, you will then get comments and no critiques. I prefer not to critique unless the writer seeks publication.

 
Posted : June 12, 2017 11:09 am
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