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Voices From The Web 2021

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ukadmin
(@ukadmin)
Estimable Member Admin

Well, to be honest, 10 was an arbitrary number. It could be 3. Also, It was only an idea. It won't be put into practice as I don't want to start coding again.

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Posted : June 14, 2021 2:34 pm
ukadmin
(@ukadmin)
Estimable Member Admin

Final nomination selections could also be decided via a closed UKA forum discussion.

 

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Posted : June 14, 2021 2:36 pm
Mandrake
(@mandrake)
Active Member

@ukadmin

Perhaps we should discuss and finalise these matters in private before contradicting each other again.

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Topic starter Posted : June 14, 2021 5:05 pm
ukadmin
(@ukadmin)
Estimable Member Admin
Posted by: @mandrake

@ukadmin

Perhaps we should discuss and finalise these matters in private before contradicting each other again.

eh?

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Posted : June 14, 2021 5:50 pm
Mandrake
(@mandrake)
Active Member

@ukadmin

I seem to have presumed too much and will accordingly butt out.

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 14, 2021 6:18 pm
ukadmin
(@ukadmin)
Estimable Member Admin

I was only making suggestions because I thought they might help. Like I said in my previous post, I was 'Thinking out loud'. Wasn't meant to be stepping on toes or putting noses out of joint. They were just suggestions thrown into the mix to discuss. I don;t mind in the slightest how things are worked out and who does the hard work Smile

I meant no harm.

 

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Posted : June 14, 2021 6:22 pm
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Honorable Member

Why keep beating about the bush? Ad far as I can see what Mandrake is proposing is that the old system of choosing pieces for inclusion in the anthology by nominations and voting by the membership should be replaced.

If I am not mistaken, the members would still nominate their preferences but not vote for them and leave the final decision to an independent adjudicator and he has offered himself for this role, citing that he would exercise the same proven expertise that he applies to his publishing company, the Cerasus Press, by selecting items of quality. It is my belief that it is a fairly straightforward proposition which only requires a yes or no answer. It's up to the interested parties to reach a decision.

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Posted : June 14, 2021 8:34 pm
ukadmin
(@ukadmin)
Estimable Member Admin

No problems from this side.

admin (Andrea & I) will go with whatever is, or has been, decided.

Just let me know what needs to be implemented on the website side for this to work (if anything needs to be implemented).

 

thanks

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Posted : June 14, 2021 11:55 pm
franciman
(@franciman)
Honorable Member Moderator

I'm not sure we can call it beating about the bush. My first reaction with this was, that open forum might not be the best place to discuss Mandrake's proposal. Now I am of the opinion that we need to let a little light in... The proposal was born from another topic discussion on the forum.

 

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Mandrake's very kind offer would reintroduce one of the most popular elements of UKA. However, and there is always a however... We need to ask ourselves what we want from an anthology. Mandrake is an editor, a successful one. Presumably he selects and edits 'submissions' for publication in the magazine. Voices from the Web is our anthology of work recommended by the members. UKA authors do not submit work for publishing; they are nominated by their fellows. Some of us submit for publishing, but not all. To many of us it is a Mark of some real merit to be nominated by our peers. I would hope everyone can see the difference?

 

Mandrake posed the question, 'why make it complicated?'. My answer would be, 'because it isn't a question of editorial selection, or notional 'quality', but rather of the popularity of our fellow members' work.'

 

Members must choose... Must vote. For me that is the prime point at issue. On the subject of editing, I believe work must be edited in collusion with the author, not arbitrarily as might happen with a formal submission. I rather hope people can see the difference, and that it is not a binary choice of accept all conditions or say no thanks.

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Posted : June 15, 2021 8:06 am
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @ukadmin

No problems from this side.

admin (Andrea & I) will go with whatever is, or has been, decided.

Just let me know what needs to be implemented on the webs

Thank you Jim for your contribution to the discussion, or lack of it, about the proposed production of an anthology. From what I have seen so far a lot of ideas have been floated, including Mandrake's offer of editorship, and if we look at the above quote, both ukadmin and Andrea are happy to go along with what has been decided. My question is: what has to be decided upon and who makes the decision. 
No guidelines have been issued and I, for one, am in the dark about the procedure. Is it going to be an open consultation or a private one, as Mandrake seems to suggest? 

 

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Posted : June 15, 2021 10:06 am
griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

Ahem... "Thank you Jim for your contribution to the discussion, or lack of it, about the proposed production of an anthology"...  I heard your voice, Luigi! Hi  

My two pennyworth is that having read the discussion to date it would be nice to think that the whole process could be led by the membership. How that could be achieved on a practical level I'm not certain (imagining the complications of modifications to the web site).  Say it was decided to throw open the selection from a closed nomination list, then I have seen this kind of thing done my email where the reply from the member follows a set format: i.e., line one your UKA nickname, line 2 your first vote, line 3 your second, line 4 your third et cetera.

I do realise that ultimately the publisher will need to have some input because of space and layout, but it would be nice to think it had membership input as to the filtering down of selections.  I further agree with the idea that editing with the collaboration of the author would be most desirable.

That said, at the moment I think the number of selections so far made is way too few. :(

Regards,

ALLEN

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Posted : June 15, 2021 2:14 pm
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Honorable Member

Nothing more has been added to this topic for some time. Can we please have an update? Is it still a viable proposition? I sensed that Mandrake had withdrawn from the project due to a lack of direction from the members and the site administrator. Assuming that the anthology is still under consideration, is it going to be exclusively poetry? The nomination list only shows two pieces of prose.

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Posted : July 14, 2021 1:03 pm
griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

My first thought is has Mandrake hinted he has withdrawn his offer? 

Secondly, I thought the idea was that the members would nominate and then, presumably, editors would select from those nominations.  On that basis, the lack of, or excess of any genre is purely down to the choice of the nominating members. If we/editors/or anyone else seek to redress any apparent unbalance wouldn't that destroy the ethos of it?

I know of one nomination that was made yesterday, so the 'membership' would appear to think it is still 'on' and are expecting it to happen.

What is needed?  Probably some formal UKA structure.

---o---

A bit of a rant or digression in a way, but....

Personally, and judging by my disappointment in the number of reads and comments to my own and other's prose submissions as a generality (admittedly some bias in that opinion) I'm not surprised that there are less nominations in that genre.

Again from personal experience of my own work (and not exclusively on UKA) 'long' anything - poetry or prose - is less popular. (It is probably down to social media for encouraging everything to be done in what was 144 characters (*sarcasm*) or whatever, but it is as if people click on a page and if the end can't be seen without scrolling downwards or turning a page, then it's easier to click on something else and see if it is going to take less time to read!!  Do I sound bitter? Sorry? If you think I am, then explain it to me another way.)  In part, it probably accounts for the spurt of interest that the June competition inspired... 200 words.

 

 

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Posted : July 14, 2021 1:40 pm
Mandrake
(@mandrake)
Active Member

Hi, I'm still around and I monitor this thread and the nominations list about once a week.

What I withdrew from was the debate, as it appeared that members wanted more say about the process of collating a book.

Mistakenly, it seems, I had rashly assumed I had been given carte blanche by Andrea and Richard.

As I understand it, the sticking points are that members want final say on what gets included; the criteria on creating an initial shortlist should be broader than the commercial publishable quality of pieces; that those pieces should not be rigorously edited.

Let me address those points in reverse order:

I don't propose making any changes to an author's work without their express permission. Unless I spot any glaring 'faults', I would limit suggested changes to basic corrections of spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.

It is in the nature of writing sites such as UKA that much of the work posted is a first draft. Since it would have already been nominated by a member, it is not for me to disagree with such choices. The purpose of an anthology is to showcase UKA in a positive light; to present a broad, inclusive and representative selection of material. Those would be my criteria.

Putting that shortlist to a further vote would, I contend, serve no useful purpose. At the moment, there are not many nominations, so the point is currently moot. Conducting a poll of members would be time consuming. What if only a minority of members responded: would that be a valid poll? How many votes guarantees inclusion? What if no one gets that many? Or if the votes are spread thinly across the whole selection? If you are nominated, should you also vote? If you don't vote, do you forfeit the right to be included?

My background is in local government, where I learned that committees don't get things done. Plus, as a former Quality Auditor,  I am trained to ask: does this process add value to the finished product?

I wonder if it is unrealistic to get a new anthology published this year, in time for Xmas. Do we need more time to thrash these points out and to create a longer nominations list?

But what would constitute a majority opinion of members as to how to proceed?

On the other hand, if it is left to me, I can definitely make the anthology happen.

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Topic starter Posted : July 20, 2021 5:28 pm
griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

@mandrake  Thank you for this. Very much appreciate your detailed explanation. No doubt there will be some follow up from... er... people?

😋

Allen

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Posted : July 21, 2021 4:30 pm
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