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How to get UKA back on top?

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griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

@ethanmeklan 

A welcome back to you, and thanks for actually making some valuable suggestions.  We need more people like you, that's for sure.  Hopefully you will share some your writing again.

I can't think of an app that I've seen which was just an input portal to an online web site, but I did see, yesterday, in my research, a WordPress theme (I think it was free) that made emphasis on it being written (coded) to render (appear properly) on mobile phones.

 

@Gee

Your friends' observations seem to be similar to my thoughts on our 'front page' (FP).  If our FP welcomed specifically welcomed people (only logical because that's where everyone coming to the site start off) briefly explained a bit about ourselves and what the visitor can do and BENEFIT from the site et cetera, and at every stage of this there is a repeated 'submit' button (Link)... that may provide a quick route through the doorway.  I'm bound to say, in light of recent history, that all submissions should be vetted somehow.  This can be done automatically in the first instance by comparing the IP address of the submitter to a list (database/DB) of known trouble makers/trolls/whatever (I believe there was a list that was offered between webmasters, for just that purpose. I'm sure Admin will know.)

The stuff that appears on the present FP from way back**, is from a bit of coding that randomly selects from the DB of all works submitted of that kind.  I think Admin's thinking would be that to limit that random search to, say, only submissions made during the past six months, is because it could result in repetition due to the relatively small number in that time.  Personally, I have been trying to read some of those older ones and comment on them because maybe those old members will be 'pinged' about someone having commented on their work and come back to have a look. It may not be a useless feature, but perhaps it could be headed more appropriately to something like 'a random dip into our member's work'?

 

Generally:

You know, when you think about it, the only people who are more likely to come to UKA following an inquiry on a search engine, are going to be interested in 'writing'... from the sites very name. To extend upon this pool of potential visitors is perhaps where Admin's idea about a companion magazine/site came from, where we somehow encourage 'readers' to visit.  So equally as important could be a button (link) for 'Read something now' (which could be a randomised function like ** above).  Important then, would be button to read something else - perhaps of a different genre.

 

 

 

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Posted : June 24, 2021 9:38 am
griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

@stormwolf 

You will know how your decision has upset me.  But, like Gee, I understand it. 

I've said a lot to you by PM, so I won't drag it out.  Blessings and love to you. XX

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Posted : June 24, 2021 9:41 am
stormwolf liked
stormwolf
(@stormwolf)
Honorable Member Moderator

Thank you Allen. I am not going anywhere. I shall always be around and remain fervent in my support of UKA and its members. It's just that I feel I cannot add much to the new plans because I am a technophobe and also very easily tired. As the day wears on my energy reserves run low and then its easy to feel swamped. I enjoy reading and commenting as long as it is not something that stresses me out if I fall behind.

I am touched at being asked to recite poetry by Yukta and Luigi. I do enjoy that. It's also nice to be asked.

I feel to step back from the discussion about the new site as I will go with the flow but I do not know enough about other sites to add anything new.

I also may be moving back north soon and although that will not affect me participating (in fact could give me a new lease of life) Wink  

It does require a huge amount of planning and packing etc which is a sort of nightmare to me. I will not know for definite if I am moving until I have seen the property inside. It is a huge decision for me as I have moved about 15 times over the years and have put down roots here but with a new grandchild up there I want to be active in his life.
Reading the comments here I feel the new site could be the best yet. We have the reputation of a good site and there have been some great suggestions. 

Smile

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Posted : June 24, 2021 10:12 am
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Honorable Member
Posted by: @gee

I think you're right in that we're not completely sure what we want.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree: we know what we want and that is a FUNCTIONAL site free of the shortcomings that have been highlighted over and over again by various users of the site. In addition to the ones that you and your friends have found there are many other features that don't work or are missing and which need addressing. Like we do for shopping, let's make a list of the ingredients we believe we require.
Some can be accomplished without a complete overhaul of the system, I'm thinking of broken links, the search box, the newsletter that seems to go astray even though members have subscribed for it and any other recognisable glitch.

 

 

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Posted : June 24, 2021 10:28 am
gee
 gee
(@gee)
Eminent Member
Posted by: @ionicus
Posted by: @gee

I think you're right in that we're not completely sure what we want.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree: we know what we want and that is a FUNCTIONAL site free of the shortcomings that have been highlighted over and over again by various users of the site. In addition to the ones that you and your friends have found there are many other features that don't work or are missing and which need addressing. Like we do for shopping, let's make a list of the ingredients we believe we require.
Some can be accomplished without a complete overhaul of the system, I'm thinking of broken links, the search box, the newsletter that seems to go astray even though members have subscribed for it and any other recognisable glitch.

 

Well, I meant that with regard to how we'd like the site to look but it definitely has to be functional, as you say.

 That's a very good point and, regarding the broken links, I wonder if a fault reporting system might help because, in a site like this with so many links, it's easy to leave out something as small as one letter, a full stop or even something like this sign / which will break the link. If we had a proper format for how to report these things, I think it would make it easier to give the information Richard needs to find and fix it so that's definitely an idea for @admin to see if it's feasible.

You've mentioned the search box and I can see from the shout box that you've taken the problem of the newsletter up with Richard. Are there any other problems on the site that you'd like to bring up? 

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Posted : June 24, 2021 11:18 am
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Honorable Member

@gee Yes a fault reporting form might do the trick but UKadmin would have to closely monitor and react to it. In the past, communication about requesting changes has been via the forum or shoutbox, methods easily overlooked.

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Posted : June 24, 2021 11:36 am
ukadmin
(@ukadmin)
Estimable Member Admin

Lots of great replies since my last post. I am reading and mulling over the suggestions and ramifications!

One thing I need to say is that there will be no return to paid memberships/subscription payments etc. Never like the idea of 'paywalls'. Just puts people right off.

 

 

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Topic starter Posted : June 24, 2021 12:05 pm
gee liked
griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

@ Admin

Re subscriptions: Well we know the absolute position there.  Thank you for clarifying it.

Q: Re tweeting - what is the copyright situation on people tweeting actual UKA postings?

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Posted : June 24, 2021 3:41 pm
gee
 gee
(@gee)
Eminent Member

What do you think about putting a small discrete button on each piece of writing with donate to uka on it and perhaps something on the front page explaining what it's for? A bit like the "buy me a ko-fi" thing but not too intrustive. Not required, but appreciated. 

This post was modified 1 year ago by gee
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Posted : June 24, 2021 3:52 pm
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Honorable Member

@griffonner

you can always tweet something like this "I read. a poem. on UKAuthors that I enjoyed very much. Have a look, here is. the link

Jealousy

"
No copyright infringement and the reader would be directed to our site. I put my own poem's link as an example.

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Posted : June 24, 2021 4:55 pm
griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

@ionicus 

 

As I understand it from this:

"In terms of protecting your work, you should put a copyright notice on it so that visitors to your website are put on notice that you own the copyright in it. Although this is not a legal requirement in the UK, it is advisable and is a practical step to take to reduce the risk that your work is copied.

This may not be noted by the 'tweeter'.

Further she says, but I think she is referring to describing ideas for things:

However, English law does not give any protection to ideas alone, and only protects the way in which those ideas are expressed, ie the words you use. If your ideas are such that you want to keep them secret until you are published in print, it would be advisable not to put them on your website, and protect them on the basis of confidentiality. Once you put the ideas on your website, your ability to stop other people using them will be relatively limited."  [Helen Goldthorpe, an associate solicitor specialising in intellectual property and information technology law at Irwin Mitchell LLP. ]

 

So I am concerned that the 'tweeter' may not state that copyright exists; may not have the 'knowledge' to correctly place a link back and so publish the whole thing rather than an extract.

One way around the problem would be for the submission page to have a 'button' for the 'tweeter' to select and have the correct UKA page link copied for them to use in a 'tweet'.

:(

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Posted : June 24, 2021 6:28 pm
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Honorable Member

@griffonner for. your information.

Hyperlinking: new guidance on copyright infringement

by Susie Middlemiss and Laura Balfour, Slaughter and May
The issue of whether hyperlinking falls within the scope of copyright protection is of fundamental importance to all those who use the internet. In a recent case, Advocate General Wathelet has opined that if copyright works put online without the rights holder’s consent are freely available on the internet through third-party websites with no restricted access, hyperlinks to those works are not an infringement of copyright.

The issue of whether hyperlinking falls within the scope of copyright protection is of fundamental importance to all those who use the internet. Advocate General Wathelet (AG) has taken the view that if copyright works put online without the rights holder’s consent are freely available on the internet through third-party websites with no restricted access, hyperlinks to those works do not constitute an act of communication to the public under Article 3(1) of the Copyright Directive (2001/29/EC) (Article 3(1)) and are not therefore an infringement of copyright (GS Media BV v Sanoma Media Netherlands BV and others C-160/15).
The European Court of Justice (ECJ) has previously addressed the question of the legality of hyperlinks and held that the provision of clickable links is not an act of communication to the public that gives rise to a copyright infringement (Nils Svensson and Others v Retriever Sverige AB C-466/12, see News brief "Linking and framing copyright material: guidance at last"). Interestingly the AG’s analysis on the question of what constitutes an act of communication in GS Media departs from that of the ECJ in Svensson. In GS Media, the ECJ was asked to determine whether linking to content which has been placed on a website without permission is unlawful. In reaching his conclusion, the AG argued that if hyperlinks are not indispensable in making the works available, they do not amount to an act of communication of the works under Article 3(1) and it is therefore immaterial that the works are unauthorised.

 

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Posted : June 24, 2021 7:04 pm
griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

@ionicus 

Thanks Luigi.  Though I'm not particularly worried about hyperlinking, I'm concerned about the way someone's work might be reproduced on the twitter/at al. page without appropriate accreditation.

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Posted : June 24, 2021 8:21 pm
ionicus
(@ionicus)
Honorable Member

@griffonner 

you don't seem to understand what I am trying to say, Allen.  If you go to any poem on UKA, at the end of the poem there are several icons. when you click on the Twitter one you create the following tweet; #amreading Fresh Flowers @ukauthors

Fresh Flowers

#amwriting #WritingCommunity #poetry

the work itself is not reproduced, only the link to it is shown and the link is not a breach of copyright.

 

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Posted : June 24, 2021 10:09 pm
griffonner
(@griffonner)
Eminent Member

@ionicus 

We are not so bad at communicating, I'm sure. Smile    Yes, I see that.  But not everyone works that way, sometimes they cut and paste into a 'foreign' web site, or even twitter/facebook.

Frankly,  I hardly ever use Twitter and definitely not Facebook (which I haven't supported for over a decade I guess), but I read quite a lot of other peoples tweets via online web sites such as Reddit, so I know that people post extracts or even whole pieces of information and date that they find online.

I want UKA to be promoted, don't get me wrong. To force people to use the route you are talking about, then install a script to stop right clicking on the submissions.

Have a nice night.

Allen

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Posted : June 24, 2021 10:33 pm
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