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jezz2544
Member

As a new member with 2 chapters of my new novel published on the main site, I'd be keen to participate in the deep critique opportunity. However, I'm reluctant to be first to seek this service; I'd prefer to show willing and critique a longer standing  member's work first. Etiquette and all that! With the third party option to do a really good job without the need to write everything freestyle, I'm surprised nobody has taken up the chance to use this great facility. Naturally, commenting on work of a similar style or interest is preferable. Come on, give it a go somebody! Post your link here.

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Posted : October 3, 2016 4:50 pm
e-griff
Member

For goodness sake, don't hold back because of 'politeness' . If you want crit, it's here, but it IS deep. Grit your teeth and hang on - it's worth it in the end. I had to go through through this (and more) to become at least a competent writer. Put your pride in the cupboard and jump in. You can always ignore it. 

 

JohnG

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Posted : October 4, 2016 2:35 pm
stormwolf
Member

I put one forward before in the distant past, that I felt sufficiently distant from that I could stand the pain 😉 Wolf Bro gave me a dressing down and told me I should be putting one I cared about instead and some other comments haha

I will look something out and throw it to the lions. I'm a big girl now, I can take it! (I think ) 🙁

Of life's two chief prizes, beauty and truth, I found the first in a loving heart and the second in a laborer's hand.

Khalil Gibran

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Posted : December 2, 2016 3:03 pm
stormwolf
Member

 

here ya go. Fill yer boots! 🙁

 

Dark Promises

A walk on the dark side

 

  I asked you in the darkness
    as my fingers traced your lips
    and my breath fell on your neck
    “Can I reveal myself to you?”

    Your grip came ever tighter;
    Your words like sweet blossoms
    anchoring me in that vital
    exquisite caging.

    You pledged yourself to me
    in that moment, lost in time,
     as red mists consumed us,
    I surrendered my boundaries entirely.

Deep, dark and brooding is my night.
Encased in that sublime velvet
do my thoughts take root.
Oh! shield me

from the daylight’s
cleansing!

Of life's two chief prizes, beauty and truth, I found the first in a loving heart and the second in a laborer's hand.

Khalil Gibran

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Posted : December 2, 2016 3:09 pm
savvi
Member
Hi stormwolf 
Firstly let me say well done for putting this out there. I enjoyed the poem it does take the reader to a darker place but it kind of teeters on the edge of going all the way rather than getting down and dirty so too speak. I think you need to decide what it is you want the reader to take away and stick with it. The  lighter notes such as the opening scene don't take enough risk to grab the reader. I have put some comments below that highlight some areas you could look at and my thoughts about those lines. I really like the end two stanza's but the oh shield me is too passive for me I wanted the N to be passionate about daylights cleansing, which by the way is a great line to finish on. Hope this helps and please remember this is only my view, others my see things differently and offer better advice I'm ok at reading poems but I do sometimes miss the point . Good look with your edit and I am very much looking forward to seeing where you take this. Best Keith

 

Dark Promises

A walk on the dark side 

 

  I asked you in the darkness the opening sets the scene well but doesn't really grab me
    as my fingers traced your lips 
    and my breath fell on your neck I like the set up were not really getting into it here so this works well 
    “Can I reveal myself to you?” This comes across a bit mills and boon to me there has to be a fresher way to say this

    Your grip came ever tighter;
    Your words like sweet blossoms why sweet blossoms? it lightens the whole stanza and slows down the descent into darkness 
    anchoring me in that vital
    exquisite caging. Love these two lines 

    You pledged yourself to me I would reconsider pledge it's not aggressive enough because the last line in this stanza is totally submissive 
    in that moment, lost in time,
     as red mists consumed us, this line doesn't work hard enough, it borders on cliche and red mist is usually associated with anger 
    I surrendered my boundaries entirely. This line is perfect the complete collapse leading into the ending that finds the N wanting to stay in this darker place as long as she can

Deep, dark and brooding is my night.
Encased in that sublime velvet
do my thoughts take root. Not sure what is ment in this line 
Oh! shield me I wanted more desperation here more passion about clinging onto the discovered darkness

from the daylight’s
cleansing! Great end lines 

   

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Posted : December 2, 2016 7:07 pm
stormwolf
Member

Hi Keith,

 

Thank so much for your bravery ha-ha and willingness to be open and truthful.

 

Before I start, let me say one thing. When I explain myself and my decision to use certain words or phrases, I am not arguing for my limitations! So many, who are given truthful crit, (myself among them at times) wants to argue the point but that is a non starter. Yes, by all means we should explain to the reader why we chose certain ways of putting things across but only as an explanation (I feel) and not as a way of saying "I am right and you are wrong!"

 

This is one of the commonest things I find that get on my tit  nerves and makes me reluctant to waste time and energy in the future. After all, as poetry is in essence subjective...it means that in general, we have to be open to how the poem came across to the reader. That is why vanity posting and vanity comments are the death knell to a vibrant site that will have people progressing. It’s the slow (or quick )  path to a mediocre site.

 

In this I also highlight that some members have been at it so long, with such an original style that has served them well, that to barge in with "how it should be " while losing the writer’s voice can be like akin to nails against a blackboard and in fact quite insulting to boot.

 

Having got all that out of the way, let me give you my thoughts. This poem was not considered one of my best to me but it also was written with a lot of deep feeling, so I know the circumstances that gave it birth 😉

 

I shall go through your comments with my explanations or thoughts underneath

Of life's two chief prizes, beauty and truth, I found the first in a loving heart and the second in a laborer's hand.

Khalil Gibran

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Posted : December 3, 2016 5:50 pm
stormwolf
Member
Hi stormwolf 
Firstly let me say well done for putting this out there. I enjoyed the poem it does take the reader to a darker place but it kind of teeters on the edge of going all the way rather than getting down and dirty so too speak. I think you need to decide what it is you want the reader to take away and stick with it. The  lighter notes such as the opening scene don't take enough risk to grab the reader. I have put some comments below that highlight some areas you could look at and my thoughts about those lines. I really like the end two stanza's but the oh shield me is too passive for me I wanted the N to be passionate about daylights cleansing, which by the way is a great line to finish on. Hope this helps and please remember this is only my view, others my see things differently and offer better advice I'm ok at reading poems but I do sometimes miss the point . Good look with your edit and I am very much looking forward to seeing where you take this. Best Keith

 

Dark Promises

A walk on the dark side 

 Here we go,

  I asked you in the darkness the opening sets the scene well but doesn't really grab me
    as my fingers traced your lips 

I am setting the scene, one of intense intimacy, coupled with darkness. Darkness can be many things. I am deliberately being obscure..the darkness can be physical darkness..or it can be darkness of another kind...one the couple have agreed on. A place of connection. I feel even physical darkness can be highly erotic with two people intent on exploring each other.... so I start with that.
    and my breath fell on your neck I like the set up were not really getting into it here so this works well 

Hurray. I am taking the lead, being the temptress, so to speak.
    “Can I reveal myself to you?” This comes across a bit mills and boon to me there has to be a fresher way to say this
 
Not sure how I could phrase this any different . I am laying myself bare emotionally. A thing very hard for me to do at that time, taking into account past experiences. I am asking if he is ‘man enough’ to deal with the real me, the entirety of me.

    Your grip came ever tighter;
    Your words like sweet blossoms why sweet blossoms?

This is the bit that I was not sure about.

When I write, I am almost the scribe to my intuition. I am saying that his comforting words were so delightful, that they came over like Laburnum in June, trailing Lilacs, things that make my spirit soar...that was my inner vision. Beauty in darkness, comfort in indecision. I realise they are out of sync with the rest of the poem but I am explaining how I was able to drop my boundaries, lose my inhibitions and be free to be myself. I saw beauty, only beauty.

 it lightens the whole stanza and slows down the descent into darkness 
    anchoring me in that vital
    exquisite caging. Love these two lines 

Exquisite caging = being totally penetrated, dominated, pinned down.

    You pledged yourself to me I would reconsider pledge it's not aggressive enough because the last line in this stanza is totally submissive 

Yes. Pledged in maybe too wishy-washy.
    in that moment, lost in time,
     as red mists consumed us,

 this line doesn't work hard enough, it borders on cliche and red mist is usually associated with anger 

Yes, I agree. ‘Red mists’ are more like anger but I am thinking of the base chakra here Winking smile red in colour. Red is passion. We are lost in one another.

I need to re-write this.


    I surrendered my boundaries entirely. This line is perfect the complete collapse leading into the ending that finds the N wanting to stay in this darker place as long as she can

Deep, dark and brooding is my night.
Encased in that sublime velvet
do my thoughts take root. Not sure what is meant in this line 

In western thought, we see darkness as dangerous, scary, of the devil etc..
But Shamanically speaking, the darkness, is a comforting place of nourishment, growth and planting of what is to be. Think of seeds in the dark earth during the winter, to spring forth in spring with new vitality.
Oh! shield me I wanted more desperation here more passion about clinging onto the discovered darkness

I don’t know how I can be more desperate! I am aware that something has arisen in me, that is so powerful, it may well threaten my very being.

from the daylight’s
cleansing! Great end lines 

Thank you so much. I really appreciated the means to delve into a poem, written probably without too much conscious thought.

I welcome your feedback or others too. What I have written may make you want to agree or disagree fervently.

  This is the way forward.,

Alison x

  

 

Edited: 4 months  ago

Of life's two chief prizes, beauty and truth, I found the first in a loving heart and the second in a laborer's hand.

Khalil Gibran

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Posted : December 3, 2016 6:43 pm
savvi
Member

Hi Alison

please don't think I'm ignoring your comments I will reply in due course but I was kinda hoping that some others might join in, there isn't much point in having a forum for deep crit if it ends up one to one.

Is there anyone else that would like to feedback on Alison's poem?

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Posted : December 7, 2016 9:03 pm
stormwolf
Member

It's exactly what I was thinking. I was going to write yesterday "well that went down like a lead balloon haha "

Apathy rules but there again, busy time of year and maybe people are a bit reticent to give their views. I think a shorter, simpler poem may have been better to start with but I just wanted to get the ball rolling so chose the first off my old first page that was not nibbed. (Plenty more not nibbed to chose from 🙂 )

I feel after that, that poems can be like dreams, in that we are maybe not aware of how much we are disclosing when we write. Only in the dissection do they maybe come to light. 🙁
It is challenging in that way to be sure.
Don't worry about it Keith. You were good to spend time on it and I value your input. There were things I did not like about it to be honest but sometimes we just...write and be damned! 😉

Edited: 4 months  ago

Of life's two chief prizes, beauty and truth, I found the first in a loving heart and the second in a laborer's hand.

Khalil Gibran

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Posted : December 8, 2016 3:00 pm
e-griff
Member

You don't need masses. If even one person responds intelligently (as here) it's very valuable. My philosophy when I edit is not 'I know more than the author' but 'I can see things you are too close to realise, how about it?' 

And I also put in opinions for consideration. 

So long as someone comments, no problem. 

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Posted : December 26, 2016 8:00 pm
stormwolf
Member

Indeed Griff. Thank you 😉

Of life's two chief prizes, beauty and truth, I found the first in a loving heart and the second in a laborer's hand.

Khalil Gibran

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Posted : December 28, 2016 7:13 pm
  
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